User talk:Nephele/Archive-2007-09

Xbox QuestionEdit

I've got a major problem don't suppose you can help? My disc said it was unreadable for the 1st time - i reloaded but the clothing of all NPC's can no longer be seen! Whats going on? Is there any way of undoing this?

I've been advised to speak to you by Saruuk (User talk:Saruuk# Saruuk removing my comment twice). — Unsigned comment by Fieldmouse79 (talk • contribs)

Some possibilities that come to mind are:

• If the problem is just with one save game, then that save game might have become corrupt. Then you'll just have to go back to an earlier save game.
• If your disk has errors, then you'll probably need to get a new disk.
• In case of any problems on the Xbox 360, it's a good idea to clear your cache. See Oblivion:Xbox 360#Xbox 360 Fixes.

--Nephele^Talk 23:18, 3 September 2007 (EDT)

Help!Edit

Please Block this user, for he/she is spamming with porn sites thanks. the user is: 69.147.76.101

--Playjex 14:07, 6 September 2007 (EDT)

He's been blocked. For future reference, posting a request for a spammer to be blocked is generally not necessary. We can almost always pick them up just because they're marked as unpatrolled on the recent changes page. And if you think a request is needed, the UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard is a better place for non-urgent requests, since that addresses all admins rather than just one. (Although if you have an urgent request, for example because of a vandal who's blanking tons of pages, individual admin talk pages are better for getting an admin's attention as fast as possible). --Nephele^Talk 14:52, 6 September 2007 (EDT)

Heyla, Beautiful!Edit

So, I'm basically corrupting all my fellow editors for characters in my fanfiction, and I was wondering if you had seen or taken offense to my treatment of you...and wondering if Daveh will kill me for my version of "Hermit Dave". Honestly, I've never spoken to the boss. Does he have a sense of humor? Somercy 15:25, 6 September 2007 (EDT)

Hi, Somercy! I'd been about to drop you a note mentioning that I had already given you the go-ahead to use my name (Permission to use your name?), which is why I'd been too lazy to respond again this time around ;) I definitely haven't seen anything so far to which I've taken any offense :)

As for Daveh, yes, he does have a sense of humor ;) He's generally pretty laid back, so I wouldn't imagine that his reaction would be at all negative, let alone homicidal. Feel free to ask him on his talk page, or if he pops into IRC first I can mention it there (although I'm unlikely to be in IRC much during the next week, so it might be a while before I get a chance). --Nephele^Talk 15:45, 6 September 2007 (EDT)

Name changeEdit

Hey Nephele this is listener under my new name. it would be nice if you'd transfer the edits tho I havent done too much yet. Thanks!

Forlornhope

Tamriel TrailsEdit

You might have noticed my huge flood of edits regarding Tamriel breadcrumb trails yesterday. I did all but two sections, which I was unsure of. The [[Template:Tamriel Flora Header|Tamriel Flora Header]] has some unusual code in it that I'm not sure what it's for, so I didn't want to mess with that. Never seen the #sub command before, don't know what it does, or what the number 6 has to do with anything, so I don't want to screw something up there. The other section I didn't start was the Books section, because I wasn't sure if that was going to be part of your plan for re-working this part of the site. Thus, the <[[:Category:Tamriel|Tamriel Category]] is a little crowded with those items at the moment. At some point I want to do the same for those that I did with Factions, Gods, Places, People, Bestiary, etc., but I'll wait until I get a response from you on these odd cases. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 14:19, 12 September 2007 (EDT)

I've updated Tamriel Flora Header. The #sub part is just a substring function. So {{#sub:{{PAGENAME}}|6}} tells the template to create a substring starting with the 6th letter of the string {{PAGENAME}}. In the case of a page like Tamriel:Flora H, it means that the sort key is automatically set to "H".

As for the books, I'll look into doing those, too. The book reorg won't really have an effect on this. The bigger problem is that there's some ugliness with how the book headers are being done. And given how many tries it took me to get the flora template fixed just now, I'm probably better waiting until later to tackle the book templates. --Nephele^Talk 22:58, 12 September 2007 (EDT)

Ah, thanks - that's handy. Change one template and it figures out the letter by itself, huh? That might've saved me a bunch of time manually changing every single Factions, Gods, Places, People, Bestiary, etc. page one by one... Oh well. Anyhow, thanks again. Just been in a bit of a reorganizing-everything mood lately... --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 23:26, 12 September 2007 (EDT)

Stat EquationsEdit

Hey, Nephele, thanks for the data replacement on Mage Apprentice. Those were my first attempts at data tables, as I only recently managed to grab the PC version and previously have not had access to the data listed in the construction set. With that said, where in the construction set did you locate those health and magicka formulas for the NPCs? I would like to learn where I can find information like that for future projects (and for the data tables on Dark Brotherhood Murderer, which are likely incorrect as well). SubtleCynicism 23:01, 12 September 2007 (EDT)

It's not in the construction set anywhere ;) They're just part of the invisible equations hidden within the game mechanics. What I've been able to work out about the equations is all provided at Oblivion:NPCs#NPC Statistics. Combining that info with the NPC class, race, and gender, plus a liberal sprinkle of hand-waving/manipulation, you can figure out the health/magicka equations for a specific NPC. I've got a script that just automatically spits out the NPC infobox data which I've been relying on to do all the thinking for me. At some point soon I'm planning to add a NPC statistics tool that makes it easy for anyone to look up any NPC's statistics for any level without having to work out a single equation. At that point, the NPC infoboxes will all be revamped to point to that tool for all leveled NPCs. In the meantime, I'm continuing to add the ugly equations.

FYI, I've already done the Dark Brotherhood Murderer infoboxes, too :) --Nephele^Talk 23:15, 12 September 2007 (EDT)

Alright, thanks for the info. I'll try and familiarize myself with it and see what I come up with. :) SubtleCynicism 23:20, 12 September 2007 (EDT)

Have No IDEAEdit

Greetings Nephele!!!

It is I, Playjex here. I wanted to have your permission to upload a picture of a penny racer, then somehow give it a template, like a cookie, or a cheese wedge. Is this possible? Do I have your word? HOW DO I DO IT? Thanks. --Playjex 09:17, 14 September 2007 (EDT)

You know, that was something I've been wondering, too...I wanted to use the Poisoned Apple picture to make a holiday "greeting card." Somercy 10:42, 14 September 2007 (EDT)

You can upload any images that are in the public domain or, for whatever reason, can safely be displayed on UESP without it being a copyright infringement. The images should also be ones that you plan to use on the site somehow, i.e., UESP isn't designed to be a general image hosting web server.

If you want to then put the image into some type of template, you're probably best starting with an existing template, such as Template:Cookie, Template:Cheese, or Template:Green Tea. Copy the code used there to a new page and alter it as necessary to do what you want. --Nephele^Talk 15:33, 17 September 2007 (EDT)

Job QueueEdit

When checking up on the site last night I noticed that the job queue was up in the 7000 range. This morning it was back down to single digits but I just wanted to make sure you, and anyone else working with templates, knows about the potential delay between modifying the template and the actual content being updated. If you edit a template and the changes don't show up right away check the job queue in the Special:Statistics page...if its a high value it may take longer to update. I'm sure you knew this but with a largish job queue it may take longer than normal.

We're still running with a job queue rate of 0.01 as modified a few months ago. This can be tweaked as needed if we begin to continually run large job queues.

I'm also out on the road for the next 2 weeks so my presence will be spotty as usual. -- Daveh 11:27, 17 September 2007 (EDT)

I'm guessing you noticed the high job queue while I was in the middle of making some changes to the new Book Summary template that's now being used on maybe 2000 book pages. At the moment it's high again (2600+), probably because of another couple tweaks that Lurlock has made to the same template in the last hour. I'm definitely aware that template changes won't show up right away. I've been verifying template changes by previewing and/or manually purging one or two pages that use the template. And I think the other editors who mess with the widely used templates are aware of the delayed implementation, too. Although at some point we probably should add some type of message to those templates so new editors know what's going on, too.

So far, I think the 0.01 job queue rate is working fine. I'd much rather have a small value and feel that I can safely update a template at any time, rather than the previous situation where we were all delaying template improvements until off hours (and being super-paranoid about getting them right on the first try) because each change would shut down the site for 10-15 minutes. The changes tend to always be cosmetic improvements or other non-critical changes so I don't think there's any negative impact overall from having to wait a few hours for the changes to propagate everywhere.

Have fun on travel ;) --Nephele^Talk 15:59, 17 September 2007 (EDT)

Personally, I'd like to see it be a little bit more responsive. Obviously, the way it was before was bad - the site freezing for 10 minutes any time somebody touched the NPC Summary pages was simply unacceptable. However, we're now running at 1/100th the rate it was before - that might be a bit extreme. Perhaps some middle ground can be found? We may have to experiment with it to find the best balance of queue delay vs. server load. Maybe 0.1? I don't know, but it is somewhat annoying when doing template work to have to manually update every page you're testing on. Another solution I'd go for would be to add a "Purge" button at the top of the page, just like the "Edit" and "Move" buttons. This would be much more convenient than the current solution, which is to hit "Edit", then manually change the word "edit" to "purge" in the URL bar, hit enter, then close the new tab that comes up and refresh the old one... Replacing that with one nifty button would make the slow job queue much more bearable. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 16:10, 17 September 2007 (EDT)

An ideaEdit

Ok a new user wants me to create a new page, i told him i didn't mind but I thought it would be good practice if he made it and i cleaned it up. The idea is a page on morrowind like the one on oblivion called things to do when your bored. He has not created it and i am going to do it myself if you think it is a good idea. I am just asking for my Parent* Editor's blessing

*Someone i look up to

Jesus lover 18:47, 17 September 2007 (EDT)

Any editor can create a new article (at least any registered editor; anonymous IPs cannot create new articles) if they believe that the article is needed. I'd say it's best to put the effort into writing a good quality and complete article before creating the page: other community members are more likely to accept the article and recognize its value if their first impression of the article is a good one. If you want to gradually work on the article, it would be better to start by creating it as a user page, and work on it there until you think it is complete.

Since you asked for my opinion on this particular idea, though, I feel that I need to say I'm not too fond of the idea. I personally don't really like the Oblivion page on Oblivion:Things To Do When You're Bored|Things To Do When You're Bored. I think it's a poor quality page containing nothing but subjective statements; it can't really be cleaned up because there is no objective way to judge what should or should not belong on the page. Wikis aren't really designed for that type of subjective information.

Obviously the Oblivion article has been created, so I'm not trying to say that a Morrowind article is disallowed (I don't even have the ability to make that call: what does or does not belong on the wiki is a community decision, not an individual admin's decision). At the least, a similar Morrowind article is likely to be unpopular with some members of the community. But it's ultimately up to you to make a decision about where you would like to put your time and effort when it comes to improving the wiki. --Nephele^Talk 00:06, 18 September 2007 (EDT)

Thanks. Since you have told me a great many things including, "Its your decision." and "I personally dont think its a good idea." I will definantly meditate on this. If I choose to create it, you will see it under new pages, or whatever patrollers see when a page has been created. BTW, do you think i am ready to become a patroller, or do you think I need to keep working? --Jesus lover 18:13, 18 September 2007 (EDT)

As much as I appreciate your oppinion. and yes, you know i do, because I asked you, I believe I will make the page, mainly because I enjoyed the oblivion one. As such, I am sorry to do something you see no point in. --Jesus lover 16:10, 19 September 2007 (EDT)

Hircine's Shrine - OopsEdit

Sorry, I didn't spot that it was used in other places. I just noticed that the page it directly refers to - Oblivion:Hircine's Shrine - redirects to the quest page, and assumed therefore that the description was no longer needed. --Gaebrial 12:11, 19 September 2007 (EDT)

No problem :) I know the logic sometimes gets a bit screwy with these pages. Also, there are also obviously a lot of other pages that do need to be cleaned up. So just keep using your best judgement! And one rationale behind the proposed deletion system is that if other people know of a reason why the page should be kept, they get a chance to chime in before the page disappears. --Nephele^Talk 13:31, 19 September 2007 (EDT)

Black Horse CouriersEdit

I was a surprised that you removed my gripe about the Black horse courier from the gripes page. I think the page allows for complaints about the NPC's. Perhaps you could have corrected my comment and not deleted it. If you follow the courier near Anvil you will see what I mean - The programming on the NPC is very poor. In contrast some characters like those in the Imperial city have very elaborate schedules. 19 September 2007 (EDT)

I have followed the Black Horse courier outside Anvil, many times, so I'm quite familiar with his circuit. But I don't see how that means that the NPC "isn't finished". He does what the developers intended him to do. And other than claiming that the NPC is unfinished, there wasn't any obvious content in your statement that wasn't already covered elsewhere on the Gripes page. --Nephele^Talk 19:30, 19 September 2007 (EDT)

I'm really impressed with this website and I expect it's because people like yourself are keeping it tidy. Your right, my comment did make it sound like a glitch in the programming/development - that's not what I wanted to say. Most NPCs in the game have lives that they follow, homes they go to at night and people that they interact with - its all part of what makes the game realistic. When you see a Black Horse Courier racing past at full speed they give the impression that they are doing something important. I felt let down when I found out the game developers programmed the couriers to go around in circles. It's not realistic and not typical to the rest of the game. Perhaps I could have worded it differently.

Halp!Edit

Okay, I tried to be bold and fix Hirstaang Forest‎ as much as I could, but I need someone to come behind and truly format those quest links into one of those box-things for me...I still can't table. Thanks, love! Somercy 10:36, 20 September 2007 (EDT)

BTW, I've been assuming that Lurlock's edits covered this request. If not, let me know what still needs to be done :) --Nephele^Talk 03:17, 23 September 2007 (EDT)

Just Wondering...Edit

Okay, love, I have the secret goal of becoming an admin here at some point. What do you think I need to do before that becomes a possibility? What bars my path at this point? Any advice would be loved! Somercy 12:32, 22 September 2007 (EDT)

Contribute as much as you can to the wiki. Add to stubs, help in redesign projects, delete spam, suggest pages for deletion, and report vandels. Contact admins like Rpeh if you want, they can give you more information than me. also, please ask me things on my talk page, I will garuntee I will see it there, it was just luck for me to see it here. --Jesus lover 19:33, 22 September 2007 (EDT)

Any plans to move to Australia? ;) Fortunately for the site (but unfortunately for you), we have enough active admins at the moment to cover the basics -- assuming Rpeh's nomination gets approved by Daveh, that is. Which means that priorities such as better around-the-clock coverage may be factors for the next admin to be nominated. But of course the candidate's abilities are always critical... and somewhat easier to work on than moving half way around the world!

There are obviously several aspects of adminship that you already have covered, so you mainly just need to keep up the good work. In particular, your help with greeting and welcoming new editors has been great for helping to strengthen our little wiki community :) Not to mention patrolling, cleaning up articles, etc., etc. But if you're looking for areas to work on, there are a couple things that come to mind.

One would be more thorough technical knowledge of wiki syntax. Although nobody is expected to know every possible detail, admins should be very familiar with the commonly used aspects of wiki editing (i.e., most of the material covered on UESP's help pages). When people have particularly difficult questions about editing, they inevitably turn to admins for help. Also, admins need to edit various protected pages (including the site's Main Page and the Mediawiki pages that control the site's format), where mistakes can have a larger impact than in typical articles.

Another suggestion would be to gain more experience with large-scale rewrites or reorganizations of articles. Admins are often expected to provide input on the bigger picture of how UESP is organized; at the least, making the final call on whether or not an article should be deleted requires a decision about how the article fits into the site's overall scheme. Therefore I feel that rewriting articles, creating new articles, and reorganizing content are particularly important indicators for potential admins. It's not that every edit (or even the majority of edits) need to be "big" edits, and it's not that they're even more important to the site overall; but for admins, I think that at least a few such edits are necessary.

Finally, it's worth keeping in mind that at least a few UESP regulars (me included) are inclined to be overcautious for now about new admins. Having to ask an admin to step down was very difficult for everyone involved, not to mention damaging to the site overall, and therefore that experience is probably going to haunt admin nominations for a while still. So even though by Wikipedia's standards you would perhaps already be a good nominee for admin, I think UESP candidates are likely to get held to somewhat stricter standards and it's better to try to be over-qualified.

I hope some of that helps :) --Nephele^Talk 03:08, 23 September 2007 (EDT)

No, but I have friends down there. Sorry, that's the first response that came to mind after that wall of text. Anyway, thanks for the advice and all. I'm certainly going to try and learn the way of the wiki syntax, as you suggested. It is one major weakness of mine...

I'm almost surprised that you alluded to Aristeo. I was still fairly new when that happened, but it was shocking all the same. I can see why it would make folks wary. Ah, well. Maybe with Ratwar's and Wrye's admitted decline in activity, there'll be a spot open in the Midwest. Thanks for all the advice and love! Somercy 14:00, 23 September 2007 (EDT)